"Don't Ask Don't Tell" Heads to the Dustbin of History

DOMA (0.00 / 0)

DOMA will be a battle royal. Right now I can see the fight coming up.  Part of that will probably be several federal court decisions continuing the lack of equality decisions. What will the Roberts court do? My guess is if corporate america does not care or wants equality because of accounting procedures the Roberts court will go ahead and declare DOMA unconstitutional.

The key will be at least 10 states with full marriage, 10 states with civil unions and 10 states with some level of domestic partnership.  That would be 30 states acknowledging gay partners; probably most containing the highest population areas and corporations.  


Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:01:57 PM UTC

Interesting View (0.00 / 0)

Not sure what SCOTUS will do but I think the active conservative justice fund raisings is a clue regardless of "corporate" association. DOMA again, like DADT sets a group apart for special MIS-treatment and the administration is defending this. Me thinks there's a trend here with respect "to the gays".

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by: Mike1987 @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 01:06:49 AM UTC

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10 in 10 (0.00 / 0)

10 states with full marriage in 10 years was the original concept.  The thinking is this is the tip point for SCOUS to take a gay marriage case and rule for the states and corporations.  The Commerce Clause will be under heavy attack which is something the corporations rely on for interstate commerce (surprise) and the states rely on for uniformity.

Because there are several states going with civil unions that adds pressure and can be included in the tally, in some manner.

Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 01:28:34 AM UTC

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Lieberman Walking Back Repeal Time Line (0.00 / 0)

They are now talking that nothing will happen for months (if not years).

Sen.Gillibrand was stating something about no more discharges. Wrong, Obama will not stop discharges.

For those of you thinking I might be alone in my distrust of Obama, I am not alone. Check out Pam's House Blend for more discussion.

Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:10:51 PM UTC

He deserves it and still does. (3.00 / 1)

"...President Obama has taken a LOT of crap from his "left" over his sincerity and commitment to repealing DADT..."

This is due to the work of our House Democrats and Progressive Senators.  Unfortunately, the President will get the credit initially, but does not deserve it. Harry and Nancy do. There are too many Democrats over the last few years to mention here but suffice it to say I am grateful and stunned for their hard work. I did not think this would really happen and hate or indifference would win out. Being gay, having served and the wounds to show for it, I know that my comrades knew and did not care and more importantly, always inquired about my partner.  Where ever they are, thanks pals.

Now back to more Obama bashing...... :)

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by: Mike1987 @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:25:29 PM UTC

Or, you could just celebrate a historic victory. (0.00 / 0)

:)

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by: lowkell @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:27:51 PM UTC

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Like Joel McDonald, for instance (0.00 / 0)

Today is a historic day for the expansion of equality in our nation. For the last 17 years, gay and lesbian service members have been forced to be silent about who they are and who they love. Today, the Senate voted, 65-31, in favor of repealing the discriminatory law known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (DADT), to finally allowing these service members to defend our nation with both professional and personal integrity.

I thank both Senator Webb and Senator Warner for supporting repeal. Both of our Democratic senators have been advocates of moving forward against this discrimination since the release of the Pentagon's report on how repeal would affect military readiness. Satisfied that repealing DADT would not harm the readiness of our armed forces, both voted in favor of repeal.

It's been a long road to get to this point. President Obama promised in his State of the Union address that we'd get here by the end of this year. With the calendar quickly winding down, many wondered if that was a promise the President would be able to keep. I cannot express how deeply grateful I am that the promise was kept, and for our Democratic leaders who committed themselves to making sure it was kept. For so many who have had to hide their private lives, switch pronouns to disguise the gender of those they love, and live in constant fear of career ending discovery, Christmas came a week early this year. The next step is for President Obama to sign the legislation into law. I just got an email from him stating, "When that bill reaches my desk, I will sign it, and this discriminatory law will be repealed."

Of course, repeal of DADT is the end of only one battle in the war for equality. There is much to do, and as Chair of the LGBT Caucus of the Virginia Beach Democratic Committee, I hope to do what I can to move us forward in other areas where full equality has not yet been reached. One important area is employment nondiscrimination in Virginia. This is something that Virginia Senator Donald McEachin has been working on, and he will again sponsor legislation in the Virginia Senate to ensure all Virginians have equal opportunity, fairness and justice. I hope you'll join with me in becoming a citizen sponsor of this bill.

Thank You,

- Joel McDonald
Chair, LGBT Caucus of the Virginia Beach Democratic Committee

P.S. While we can celebrate the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", Republicans filibustered the DREAM Act this morning. I join with the President in being, "disappointed that a minority of senators refused to move forward on this important, commonsense reform that most Americans understand is the right thing for our country. On this issue, our work must continue." We must stand in solidarity and work together to ensure our nation is truly a land of liberty and justice for all.

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by: lowkell @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:29:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

So what else is new from you? (0.00 / 0)

Now back to more Obama bashing...... :)

The fact is that you WON'T give him any credit, any more than you ever give Jim Webb any credit for anything.  There's no way this could have been accomplished without Obama's support OR his insistence that it be done legislatively rather than through the quick "Executive Order" fix so many were demanding early in the debate because they'd declared the prospect of doing it legislatively dead on arrival.  Harry and Nancy were NOT pleased that he pursued this course because they understood it would be very difficult.  He understood the legal problems of trying to do this through executive fiat and demanded that they do it the right way.  You would have settled for half a loaf if it had been done the way all the DADT insta-repeal advocates were urging because since it's a conduct based policy there MUST be a change in the UCMJ and also other conduct related regulations in order to make the repeal meaningful.  This could not have happened under an executive order which would have just directed the military not to enforce the policy.  All those rules and regulations still in place would have presented insurmountable obstacles for targeted gay/lesbian troops, not to mention there would have been no clarity at all in their application.

Sorry for interrupting your unrelenting anti-Obama narrative.  Carry on.

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by: Catzmaw @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:58:28 PM UTC

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He's (0.00 / 0)

In court now still fighting it along with DOMA. No, I won't give him credit. I will however give credit to Congressional Democrats who fought to get this done and many lost their jobs supporting this President.

Not sure about Webb, most likely will NOT vote for him but am not sure.

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by: Mike1987 @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 00:55:38 AM UTC

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Obama's NOT fighting for DOMA (0.00 / 0)

in the Courts. In case you hadn't noticed he doesn't interfere in the actions of federal agencies.  It's the agencies which are maintaining the defense of what people on the outside view as indefensible, but mostly because each of these cases has a bearing on federal or legislative or executive authority outside of the policy they are defending.  In some ways the policy itself is almost irrelevant to their position.  

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by: Catzmaw @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 18:11:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Exactly, well said. (4.00 / 1)

These criticisms about Obama demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding about how our political/legal system works.

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by: lowkell @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 18:24:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Today The Senate Worked (0.00 / 0)

The importance of getting the DADT repeal passed has overwhelmed something that has not happened much during the last couple of years.  The Senate functioned the way it was supposed to. I hope those R's voting for repeal are not punished too harshly.  

Web was brought up in the post vote news conference, about how he was still concerned. I say again, the old days are gone, the troops live, sleep, eat, work and fight with gays. It is the old officers that are the problem, active and retired. They are fighting Korea and Vietnam, not 2010. Get them out of the way and our troops can come home.  The way we got out of Vietnam was "declare victory and leave", it should be that way for SW Asia.

Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:39:23 PM UTC

Not quite. (0.00 / 0)

The Senate completely failed on the DREAM Act, with 55 Senators voting for it but that CLEAR MAJORITY not being sufficient to break a filibuster and move the legislation forward. That's not what I consider as "working."  

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by: lowkell @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 21:49:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

DREAM and START (4.00 / 1)

Unfortunately it looks like the deal was "you (Dems) get one of the three - choose which one". It was the only time the Senate worked the way it was supposed ot.

But, with Reid calling everybody in for an amendment on START tomorrow maybe there was a change of agreement for it.
I think if the R's defeat START that can be used against them, that is if Dems would do it, by hitting them hard and heavy every time an R opened his mouth about being the only supporters of American defense.


Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 22:32:19 PM UTC

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Given the number of past Republican (0.00 / 0)

Secretaries of State and other foreign policy heavyweights the Republicans are playing a dangerous game with this one.  I'd like to see them get it crammed in their faces every time they start talking about their foreign policy cred, and more particularly, I'd like to follow Jon Stewart's advice and cram their opposition to the 9/11 responders health act right up their noses during the next election cycle.

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by: Catzmaw @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 22:48:44 PM UTC

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From President Obama: (4.00 / 1)

Moments ago, the Senate voted to end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

When that bill reaches my desk, I will sign it, and this discriminatory law will be repealed.

Gay and lesbian service members -- brave Americans who enable our freedoms -- will no longer have to hide who they are.

The fight for civil rights, a struggle that continues, will no longer include this one.

This victory belongs to you. Without your commitment, the promise I made as a candidate would have remained just that.

Instead, you helped prove again that no one should underestimate this movement. Every phone call to a senator on the fence, every letter to the editor in a local paper, and every message in a congressional inbox makes it clear to those who would stand in the way of justice: We will not quit.

This victory also belongs to Senator Harry Reid, Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and our many allies in Congress who refused to let politics get in the way of what was right.

Like you, they never gave up, and I want them to know how grateful we are for that commitment.

Will you join me in thanking them by adding your name to our letter?

I will make sure these messages are delivered -- you can also add a comment about what the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" means to you.

As Commander in Chief, I fought to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" because it weakens our national security and military readiness. It violates the fundamental American principles of equality and fairness.

But this victory is also personal.

I will never know what it feels like to be discriminated against because of my sexual orientation.

But I know my story would not be possible without the sacrifice and struggle of those who came before me -- many I will never meet, and can never thank.

I know this repeal is a crucial step for civil rights, and that it strengthens our military and national security. I know it is the right thing to do.

But the rightness of our cause does not guarantee success, and today, celebration of this historic step forward is tempered by the defeat of another -- the DREAM Act. I am incredibly disappointed that a minority of senators refused to move forward on this important, commonsense reform that most Americans understand is the right thing for our country. On this issue, our work must continue.

Today, I'm proud that we took these fights on.

Please join me in thanking those in Congress who helped make "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repeal possible:

http://my.democrats.org/Repealed

Thank you,

Barack

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by: Dan Sullivan @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 22:05:50 PM UTC

Wow. He takes a celebratory sip (0.00 / 0)

of victory punch, grabs a forkful off the victory cake, and then claps his hands together and announces it's back to work on the DREAM Act.  Go Obama.  Good job.

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by: Catzmaw @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 22:13:50 PM UTC

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Rachel Maddow: this is Obama's victory and he'll be rewarded (0.00 / 0)

Commentator: Rachel, what's your reaction now to six Republicans voting for the repeal of Don't Ask, Dont Tell.

Rachel Maddow: You know, a lot of people said that once it was clear that it was going to pass that it would open the door to some unexpected "yes" votes. And I always am, I always tend to be a little cynical about these things so I'm not sure that I believed it. But it's true. To see Richard Burr, in particular, move on this, to see John Ensign move on this -- John Ensign indicated that he might move on this -- it just shows you that the politics of this are unpredictable and that people who will try to denounce this as "a traditional right-left issue" the way that John McCain I think in particular has tried to demagogue it, it's just, they're just wrong. They're talking about something that might have been true 20 years ago and isn't true now.

I think that politically, though, the thing to not lose touch of, to not lose touch with here, this is the President's victory. The President took a lot of criticism, a lot of abuse, a lot of skepticism from his otherwise most loyal supporters on this. But this is an issue on which the President did not waver. He continually insisted that this was possible. That it would get done.

It, in fact, was not possible for the President to do this through Executive action. This is something that had to happen legislatively if it was really going to happen in a definitive way.

The President did not waver. He DID work on the Senate to get this to happen. He insisted that this was possible against a lot of people, including me, saying it was not possible.

This is a difficult promise kept. It's not just a promise that was kept. It was one that was hard to keep, that cost a lot of political capital and a lot of work and this is the President's victory today and his base will reward him for it.

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by: lowkell @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 01:20:07 AM UTC

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I'll listen to what Rachel Maddow has to say about this (0.00 / 0)

any day of the week.  She's absolutely right, this is Obama's victory - and also Pelosi's, Reid's, and even Lieberman's and Collins' - and I'm giving him a huge amount of credit for it!

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by: lowkell @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 01:21:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lieberman (0.00 / 0)

I wonder if this will be enough to save him in 2012. Despite leading the fight on this my hope is no as I would prefer a more progressive Senator especially since we are talking about CT here.  

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by: Cool_Arrow @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 14:28:32 PM UTC

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Thrills (0.00 / 0)

Although my tone seems to be on the side of I will only believe it when it happens, I am very happy that the disaster Clinton created will be over in the next year or two (hopefully not with the next prez). Over in freeper land the world has come to an end. I went there so you don't have to and no links.

The essentials of freeper land are the end of the U.S. has occurred. Very few posting about how gays and lesbians are currently serving and have served in the military since the beginning of time. Several manly men stating how their family history was men serving and how they are disgusted (in their graves) and how they will tell their sons to avoid the pansy U.S. military. No mention of why they did not serve.

Overall the freepers are at the point of freaking out because their version of America has ended. But, their version of America is ending everyday, especially after any equality occurs whether it be gender, race or sexual orientation. Many of them make teabaggers to the left of them, if that seems possible.  Hope they sleep poorly tonight.

Mere parsimony is not economy. Expense, and great expense, may be an essential part in true economy.
Edmund Burke

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by: blue bronc @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 22:55:35 PM UTC

Their America Never Existed (0.00 / 0)

except in the dark recesses of their puny minds.

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by: Dan Sullivan @ Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 23:22:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

And on TV (0.00 / 0)

in the 1950s.  Someone needs to tell them that "Leave it to Beaver" isn't a historical documentary.

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by: NotJohnSMosby @ Sun Dec 19, 2010 at 00:48:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]