Home 2012 races Video: At Virginia Tech, Kaine Demolishes Allen in Final Debate

Video: At Virginia Tech, Kaine Demolishes Allen in Final Debate

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The final Kaine-Allen debate – this one at Virginia Tech – airs at 7 pm on CSPAN and on these additional outlets/streams. I’ll definitely be checking it out; how about you? I’m looking forward to Tim Kaine once again outclassing and out-everything’ing George Allen, as he’s done in previous debates. If you’re following the debate on Twitter, check out @timkaine, @moelleithee, @brandihoffine, @adamslily, and the hash tag #VASEN.

P.S. I can’t wait to hear George Allen’s version of Willard’s “5-point plan”: 1) tax breaks to the richest Americans; 2) corporate welfare, particularly to Big Oil; 3) repeat the same disastrous economic policies of the Bush years; 4) neoconservative foreign policy; and 5) lots of partisanship, divisiveness, and shoving Democrats “soft teeth down their whiny throats.”  Heh.

UPDATE 7:54 pm: Closing statements. Allen lists his endorsements, claims he can help give us a better future, after failing to lay out any plan to do that, and after 6 years of getting us into a mess/driving the country into the ditch. Again, how can anyone support this loser?

Kaine – We’re all Americans, we’re all Virginians. How wonderful when brothers dwell together in unity. One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Virginia Tech pulled together after tragedy. Our people knows what unity is, but our Congress doesn’t, we need people in Congress who can work together, like John Warner and “Gang of 14” (which Allen ridiculed). Now, Mark Warner is leading Gang of 6, I’ve pledged to join that group. Use of words like “hostage,” “not a Virginia Senator,” we need less of that. (SO TRUE!)

UPDATE 7:49 pm: Question on Al Qaeda. Kaine says it remains a significant concern. Need to take the fight to Al Qaeda wherever they are. Libya incident was very troubling, we need to get to the bottom of it, find out everything that happened and everything we can fix. We need to all work together, just as we did after Virginia Tech tragedy. Points out that Ryan budget cut embassy security funding, that’s not good.

Allen – Goes back to sequestration deal again. Huh?!? Any country that doesn’t protect our embassies shouldn’t get a penny from us? My god, this guy’s an imbecile: thousands of Libyans protested against the extremists who attacked our consulate, even drove the extremists out of their headquarters, but now we’re supposed to tell Libya as a whole to go screw themselves? That’s nuts. Hotheaded idiot. Also, why the heck is he rambling about the Soviet Gulag? Strange, strange dude.

UPDATE 7:39 pm: Question about Bush tax cuts. (Note: I’m a bit distracted right now because of this story. Wow.) Meanwhile, every other word out of Allen’s mouth is “taxes, taxes, taxes.” It’s brain dead right-wing pablum. I’m zoning out, as this guy’s got NOTHING – no ideas, no clue.

Kaine – This is personal to me, I’ve got a son in the military, I am NOT going to do anything to hurt military or veterans. Says Allen’s only plan is to repeal Affordable Care Act, which would increase the deficit and result in MORE cuts to the military.

Allen – Uses word “hostage.” Kaine says we’re not talking about “hostages.” Allen denies he said “hostage.” Audience laughs at him. I mean, seriously, Allen is just a buffoon, why does anyone listen to him for 2 seconds?

Kaine – This is exactly the kind of rhetoric we need LESS of not MORE of in Washington. Points out that the sequestration deal was supported by Bob McDonnell, most Republicans, Chamber of Commerce, etc. that Allen was one of very few who was willing to “play chicken with America’s finances.” They’ve already tried 34 times to repeal Affordable Care Act, it was litigated in Supreme Court, it’s not going to work.

Allen – Now he’s attacking the Senate for not passing a budget, which once again is largely his OWN PARTY’s fault! LOL, what a fool! Also note that Allen NEVER gives a straight answer to any question?!?

UPDATE 7:34 pm: Allen asks Kaine about cap-and-trade, Obamacare, sequestration, misstates all of them of course as “job killing” (FALSE!). Kaine says Allen’s a climate science denier, we need to do something about it. Kaine says he likes many aspects of Affordable Care Act (e.g., closing donut hole for seniors, not allowing denial for pre-existing conditions, etc.).

Allen – Will stop regulations of CO2 which will “outlaw coal.” Kaine thanks Allen for praising Wise County coal-fired power plant (blech). Allen proceeds to lie and lie and lie about cap and trade. Does he have any clue, or is he just a paid hack of fossil fuel interests? Yes, that was a rhetorical question. 🙂

UPDATE 7:31 pm: Kaine asks Allen about Social Security privatization. Allen says he wouldn’t “force” people out of Social Security, but we should increase eligibility age, means test it. Kaine – We should NEVER privatize Social Security.

UPDATE 7:24 pm: Question on Bowles-Simpson, deficit, would you support? Allen attacks President Obama, doesn’t specifically answer the question, goes back to talking points about the evil “Obamacare,” blah blah blah (broken record). Allen’s big answer to the deficit? Cut taxes, which of course would INCREASE the deficit, unless he’s got some magic unicorns or whatever in his pocket.

Kaine – Allen STILL didn’t answer the question. You can’t get to balance from imbalance. Allen would increase the gap by extending all the Bush tax cuts, then balance ALL through cuts. Kaine would compromise, start to close the deficit, find targeted savings. I know how to make cuts, but an all-cuts approach, allegiance to Grover Norquist, would hurt our economy and hurt Virginia.

Allen – Says we should reform entire tax code (again, that doesn’t make the math add up; this guy’s as bad as Lyin’ Ryan). Basically, Allen just keeps attacking Kaine as a tax raiser, it’s incredibly tedious and not on point. So much for having positive, constructive idea. Allen also refuses to directly answer question about Simpson-Bowles. Kaine says he doesn’t like certain aspects of Simpson-Bowles. Neither candidate would support it as is.

UPDATE 7:19 pm: Question about Medicare. Kaine says Medicare critically important safety net, but budget is growing fast (in part for a good reason, we’re living longer). We have to get Medicare costs under control (discusses his plan to do so, says government should be able to negotiate drug prices, shouldn’t have put Medicare expansion on the credit card, as Allen voted for.)

Allen – I wish somebody would call him out on the Ryan plan to voucherize (and decimate) Medicare. Does Allen support that? Now Allen’s repeating the “Obama raiding Medicare” Big Lie, which has been Fact Checked and debunked repeatedly. Lying liar.

Kaine – Why are we giving away $25 billion a year to pharmaceuticals. $700 billion in Affordable Care Act was taken from insurance companies, Allen wants to give it back to them (and away from seniors).

UPDATE 7:18 pm: Allen tries to defend his indefensible record in the U.S. Senate. Is he nuts? Seriously? Give. Me. A. Freakin’. Break. The Bush administration was a disaster, and Allen was very much part of that – enabling it, encouraging it, etc. #FAIL

UPDATE 7:14 pm: Question for Allen about voting in lockstep with Bush, being highly partisan. Allen says losing last election was “humbling experience,” he’s “learned” and “reflected” since then. Uh huh. Claims he worked across party lines when he was governor (perhaps, but that’s ancient history; how about when you were in the U.S. Senate?!? note that Allen’s dodging the question? back to attacking Tim Kaine. Yawn.)  Hahaha, Kaine calls him out big time for dodging the question, says Allen’s record in the Senate was a disaster – turned surpluses into deficits, declared two wars but didn’t pay for them, made massive tax cuts for wealthy but didn’t pay for them either…

UPDATE 7:09 pm: Question about Kaine’s relationship with Obama, Warner. Kaine says he doesn’t think it’s anti-Virginian to support the president, commander in chief, worked closely with Bush on rail to Dulles, response to tragic shooting at VA Tech, etc. In contrast, Allen has said he would NOT consider President Obama a partner, when in the Senate he voted with Bush 96% of the time, but of course he was still a Virginia Senator. Kaine reviews his record as LG, Governor, worked across the aisle. Allen goes back to false attacks, says Kaine spent his time “demonizing Republicans,” being partisan, advocating for “harmful” policies. I mean, is this guy serious? He voted for the Bush policies that got us into a horrible mess, and he’s claiming the policies that are helping us get OUT of the mess are “harmful?!?” Claims Kaine wasn’t paying attention, shut down rest stops, blah blah blah. Also, Allen doesn’t mention his own hyper-partisan roles in the past. Kaine lists his accomplishments – best for business, banned smoking in restaurants, recruited big companies to come to Virginia. In toughest times since 1930s, we got results.

UPDATE 7:08 pm: CSPAN’s back up, MUCH better quality than the Ustream feed.

UPDATE 7:06 pm: Feed back up, although the audio’s awful. Also, CSPAN’s entire site is down. WTF?  Anyway, Kaine’s giving his opening statement, most of which I just missed. Now Allen…bashing Kaine with lie after lie on energy, “Obamacare,” sequestration (which his party supported and mostly was responsible for), etc. What a moron.

UPDATE 7:02 pm: The debate begins, and the Ustream feed promptly dies. Great, huh?  

  • IN FIFTH DEBATE, WILL GEORGE ALLEN CONTINUE TO DEAL IN “GAUZY HYPERBOLE?”

    “In their debates, Mr. Kaine has displayed a command of detail while Mr. Allen trades in gauzy hyperbole.” -Washington Post

    As the Washington Post reminded voters this week, in each debate so far, Tim Kaine has offered specific, bipartisan solutions to key issues of the day, while George Allen has continued to rely on partisan rhetoric and ideology.  George Allen’s ‘gauzy hyperbole’ might sound good to some voters, but his ‘hysteria-laced attacks’ – as the Roanoke Times termed them – better represent what is wrong with Washington than a way to fix it.  

    No matter the topic, Allen has continued to dodge questions on important issues affecting Virginia’s families and businesses.

    On what Virginians can expect to pay under Allen’s ‘Optional Flat Tax,’? He won’t say.  

    On equal pay and access to health care?  Allen dismisses them as merely ‘social issues.’ (Though, last time we checked, most families consider wages and health care economic issues…).  

    On the impending defense cuts that Allen has made the centerpiece of his campaign? His proposed solution increases the deficit and further gridlocks government.

    On disagreements with his party’s nominee?  Nope, can’t name one.  

    On why voters should re-elect him given the massive deficits he voted for the last time he served?  Nothing.  

    Meanwhile, Tim Kaine has given Virginia voters clear answers to key issues and laid out specific proposals to confront tomorrow’s challenges.  Past debates don’t give us much confidence that George Allen will offer anything other than platitudes tonight, but that doesn’t mean voters don’t deserve answers.