Video, Transcript: Jen Psaki Interviews Gov. Abigail Spanberger, Who Rips UFC Fight (“a sad lesson for our kids”), Trump (a “callous president who makes it all about himself”)

See below for video and a transcript from Gov. Abigail Spanberger’s interview last night with Jen Psaki. Lots of interesting material in this interview, although the Virginia budget stalemate wasn’t discussed at all, which I found very surprising, since that’s arguably the #1 story (by far?) in Virginia politics right now.

• Psaki: So you are six months into your term. You ran on addressing the cost of living for people. You also won by the largest margin of victory by Democratic governor since the 1960s, which is pretty significant. I’m sure you don’t have a lot of time for reflection, but as you reflect, what do you feel you’ve delivered on and what do you feel like you’ve fallen short on so far?
• Gov. Spanberger: “So, months in, it’s been pretty amazing to think about the fact that, you know, I ran on the issues that I was hearing about from Virginiaians, issues of high costs and the challenges people were facing in part because of all the chaos coming out of Washington. And I’m proud of the fact that we launched a full affordability agenda focused on lowering costs and we’ve passed the entire affordability agenda. We’ve also become the first state in the South to pass a paid family and medical leave program which we’re going to begin putting into place , changing people’s lives. We’ve capped the cost of insulin, working to lower costs cutting out the middlemen on prescription drug pricing. I mean, the list goes on and on in terms of what we’ve delivered so far in partnership with our General Assembly. And there’s a lot more to be done is the reality of it. Certainly, now that my administration, all of my cabinet secretaries, now that we’ve all gotten our footing in our new roles, I just want to keep putting my foot on the gas and delivering for Virginians. And you know, I’m the type of person like there’s always more to be done. And so  that’s the goal to just keep doing things that impact and provide value to the lives of Virginians.”
• Psaki: “You also came in as Virginia’s first female governor and I’ve known you a little while from working in government and from your time your background in national security. I know you you don’t you wear you wear that on your sleeve and you don’t wear that on your sleeve at the same time, but it is significant. You’re raising your kids in the governor’s mansion. That’s different than I think what many people who have lived here before have done and experienced. What perspective has that brought and how has that impacted how you’ve approached your time as governor so far?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “Well, I think having three school-age daughters really brings the perspective, frankly, of so many Virginians. What it’s like to get the kids off to school, what it’s like to, you know, worry about what opportunities exist for them, what it’s like to try and balance a very very busy job that I believe in deeply and three kids who need me to braid their hair before they head off to camp in the morning. And so I think the perspective that I have brought by virtue of, you know, my family, I think it’s one that keeps me really grounded in what is this all for? And for me, it’s that the Virginia and frankly the country that we leave to our kids needs to be a strong one, a vibrant one. And one where every kid has a strong education and the real opportunity to succeed. And that’s what we’re working on. And I think it’s interesting too to be a mom and certainly to have people connect with that in a in a deeply personal way.”
• Psaki: “Yeah. Nothing grounds you more like your kids. My daughter was delighted I was coming to interview you but was irritated that I couldn’t help her with her goodie bags for her birthday party that is three weeks from now this morning.”
• Gov. Spanberger: “So she’s a planner. I respect that.”
• Psaki: “She is a planner. What What do you think people misunderstand about you? Because I think one of the things I know even from working for many politicians is that and people in elected office is that people are caricatured one way or the other. Either you are the greatest of good or you are the worst of the worst. And it’s rare that people really get to see the true humans who are behind it.”
• Gov. Spanberger: “I think yeah, I’m a really serious person, a really focused person. And I think that sometimes what can get lost in that is that I’m also like an eminently normal person. Talk to my daughters, they will tell you that. And I do think that that sometimes, especially in politics, if you only see somebody in a particular type of snippet or a particular type of way, that can be missed. I love the job and I believe in it and I think that sometimes the sort of seriousness as you know one should be in this role can overshadow what is like driving me to do well in this job and to do right by Virginians.”
• Psaki: “So let’s talk about some of the things, you mentioned some of the things you’ve done already as governor. One of the things that I think people see have seen as a headline is that you have a record-breaking number of vetos, 31 bills brought to you by the your Democratic le legislature. You have vetoed. And when you see that headline, you think, whoa, that’s a lot. What is going on there? So, that’s why I want to talk to you about it. And one of the ones I wanted to talk to you about is the collective bargaining bill. Because this, of course, came to you with unanimous approval from the legislature, I believe. [note: it was unanimous approval by General Assembly DEMOCRATS, not Republicans…] it didn’t meet your standards or something about it didn’t meet your standards. Collective bargaining is something that a lot of state capitals are talking about. A lot of there’s a lot of pushes for in a lot of states. What what didn’t you like about the bill?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “Well, so I think this goes back to the answer to my last question, which is the sort of serious focus. you know, there’s a variety of bills that came through our General Assembly that legislators have been working on for a long time. And as a former legislator myself, I know that you know the role is to create a bill and create policy that you believe in that you think is you know best suited for the community you represent or whether it’s federal or at the state level. As the executive, I’m the one with who’s charged with implementing it. And so whether it’s the collective bargaining bill or some of the other bills that I vetoed, there were really the the challenges that that my administration was facing is that some of the parameters about how to actually implement the bill and implement it well were were the the hurdles that I saw. So, you know, I didn’t just veto it. I actually sent back, as is the process in Virginia, a whole host of amendments trying to get us to a point where I would sign that bill.  And as is the prerogative of the General Assembly, they didn’t take any of my amendments there. And so I, you know, said, well, it is not at a place where I can implement this successfully within our administration. And in fact it was based on the feedback in that case that I was hearing from a lot of our localities, both localities that have already chosen to have collective bargaining in place across many of our communities and those that are much smaller and really worried about the the shorter time frame for them to make what you know in some communities would be a monumental shift. And so hearing their feedback, I incorporated it into my amendments. And those amendments didn’t move forward. So, you know, as is the process, we’ll keep working and you know, we’ve made tremendous progress. Another one of the bills that really wasn’t ready for for steady implementation related to a retail cannabis market, we’ve been working aggressively. The patrons there have been amazing to work with. And from an implementation standpoint and a public safety standpoint, we’ve been able to make some real strides forward, drawing on the experiences of other states that have gone before us with implementing this type of marketplace. And I think we are very very close to having a bill that can move forward, relatively quickly. So, you know, I think it’ss a question of of the fact that, you know, sometimes it’s well,  let’s pass it and fix it later. I’m of the mindset that if there’s things to fix, let’s do it right the first time.”
• Psaki: “I ask you this and it’s interesting to hear you talk about it because I think again sometimes things are shorthanded and because when you were elected as you well remember at the same time as Mayor Mamdani was elected it was like is the party the party of Governor Abigail Spanberger or Mayor Mamdani, which I think is an absurd question because it’s the answer is it’s both. And it’s learning about how you govern and how you think about governing. So, it sounds like, and I asked about collective bargaining because I think  it’s interesting to hear how you see the path forward. So, where does the path forward go from here on some of these bills that didn’t make it through, you’re continuing to work through them. What are you still committed to doing? What happens next on them?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “Well, and so I’ll go back to the the cannabis bill because I think we’re right in the middle of what that looks like. You know, certainly Virginia has we we’ve legalized the recreational use of cannabis. that was a couple years ago, but without a retail market for the recreational use of cannabis, there’s kind of this gray area, which is a gray area from a public health standpoint, certainly from a public safety standpoint. And there is a real need to have a legal retail market. And so some of the challenges that that you know I saw with the original bill and spoke very openly with the patrons about is that the time frame was really quick. And in my conversations…implementation time frame. Exactly. And from a regulatory standpoint, from a testing standpoint, from a licensing of of new stores standpoint was really quick. And I had spoken with governors of other states and my teams had talked to folks across across the US where they’re, you know, a little bit ahead of us or a lot ahead of us. What would you have done differently?  And so for me, a real important priority was lengthening the time frame just a bit. And so that was among the amendments that I put forth. And so in having real deep dive conversations with the patrons about what are my priorities, what are your priorities, let’s make sure that even the goal that I’m trying to get to and there were a couple public safety goals that I had with some of the original amendments I put forth. In kind of talking through them, we arrived at changes to the bill that certainly meet the goals that I have, but that the patrons and the people who originally wrote the bill are are pleased with. And so, you know, this is an example where ideally this bill will be moving forward, whether it’s in special session or or other vehicle. And I think that that is an example of how we can get to yes and get the bill right. You know, even with the paid family and medical leave bill, I put forth some amendments in concert with the patrons just for clarity of language, right? Because it’s a comprehensive and really important impactful change for Virginia to implement paid family and medical leave. But we needed, you know, definitions to be, you know, highly digestible and implementable. We needed time frames to be, you know, clear for employers or employees and the state and the folks who would be implementing it. And so they made those those changes with the kind of implementation executive branch viewpoint. And that bill, you know, was I was excited to sign it into law. And so I think for the other bills where you know there’s some challenges in how we move it forward, the process is going back and forth and making sure that the time frame’s right and the implementation’s right. And that’s not to say not to be aggressive. It’s just to be aggressive and get it right.”
• Psaki: “The other issue that you have definitely taken some arrows on, shall we say, is redistricting just as of late and because you used a lot of political will used a lot of your political support to get this quickly across the finish line. It was something you spoke very openly and forcefully about. Um, of course, the courts took action that meant it wasn’t moving forward even though the voters wanted it to move forward. It’s not something you’ve made clear it’s not something you want to prioritize between now and the midterm elections conveying and you can put this on your own words that you you have other priorities you want the voters to vote in the November elections. You think these these seats are winnable. What happens after the November election because this is when people get start to get really worried about the impact of the Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act.”
• Gov. Spanberger: “Well, and so this is the problem that we had in Virginia. I was forcefully in support of our redistricting amendment. ultimately that even after the people of Virginia voted, we have a multi-step process. The General Assembly, our legislature votes twice and then it goes to the people in a referendum. In our special election referendum, we saw more than 3 million Virginiaians vote and they voted in favor of a temporary responsive redistricting. And then the Supreme Court of Virginia overturned that essentially saying that the process itself wasn’t constitutional. And the Supreme Court of the United States stood with them on that, refusing to take it up. And after months of campaigning for this redistricting amendment, working to make sure that Virginians understood what it was about, understood why I was supporting it, understood why it was important, there was, you know, a moment of anger, disappointment, name your emotion. And now we have to pivot towards November, because the redistricting isn’t, the maps are not in place, the redistricting didn’t go through despite everyone’s, you know, aggressive campaigning and support and work because of the Supreme Court of Virginia. And so now we need to focus on winning. And I come at this with a mentality that, you know, I thought that redistricting was important, that temporary responsive redistricting, you know, in response to what started in Texas and continued across other Republican states. But the most important thing is winning those seats. And when I first ran for Congress back in the first Trump midterm, I ran in a strong Republican seat, a district that hadn’t elected a Democrat since 1968, a district my predecessor had won in by 15 points. And I swung it 17 points to win right at two points. And so I say that because we can win at least two seats, I would argue four seats within Virginia and they are worth working for to win. Just in November last year when I won for governor, I won two of the congressional seats, the lines of the congressional seats. And so while I know people face so much disappointment regarding redistricting, I do too. I think my role is to remind people that the redistricting was a valuable response, but it was not it was not the only path towards winning. It wasn’t required to win. It will be hard, but we can win the first district, the second district, the fifth district and the sixth district. And I mean, you know, the ninth district would be a great bonus as well. And so I want people to spend the next many months focused on that because if people are running campaigns that are responsive to their constituents, we can win. Particularly now where all of the impacts of this administration, right? If you live in a community where your hospital might be closing or closing its labor and delivery unit, hold that incumbent responsible. Elect someone who wants to work on issues that matter to you. And so I could go on and on for this, so I’ll stop because I feel passionate about it. You got to win.”
• Psaki: “I know you do. And you did win in a difficult district. And I also think and this again goes to kind of the the view of governing and how you view your role as governor. Because there are there’s so much anger I don’t have to tell you in this country and frustration about the other side Republicans Trump and others in the country trying to rig the rules and mess with people’s ability to have their voice heard. So I think it’s important for people to understand. So if you look to 2028 and you get through the election and let’s say some of those seats are won. I mean, we see where the electorate is in the country, but then you have the Republicans gutting more seats in the South. So, you’re going to have additional pressure again on you to do more to go back, right, I think, to the legislature and do it again. But why wouldn’t that be a priority? Are there other priorities you think are higher than that? How do you see it as your role as governor?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “So, I think I’m very bullish on the idea that the Democrats are going to win the majority in the House. Now, to be clear, if we do all of the things right, right? If we work hard and if we leave no stone unturned and if we recognize that every seat is a competitive seat regardless of the historical voting record. Because we are in a unique time. A president who said no wars has us in a war with Iran. Gas prices are through the roof. Prices continue to climb. Highest inflation in multiple years. If you live in a rural or agricultural community, your hospitals are potentially closing. Your health clinics are closing. Your diesel prices are up. Your costs are up on farms. your input costs are up, you’re losing your markets. It is a tough time for a lot of Americans and a lot of Virginians. And if people are out there endeavoring to understand what is actually making the lives of their fellow Virginians or Americans harder, there is real opportunity to be that voice. And so when we win in November of 2026, the expectation that I have of everybody who flips the seat is that they go to Washington and they show what it is to represent communities back home, whether it’s seats we flip here in the Commonwealth of Virginia or anywhere else in the country. Because I do believe that, you know, I’m a Democrat because I think our policies are better and stronger for people, for families, for kids, for businesses, for farmers. And we have to continue to make that case, particularly at a time when there is a president who is reckless, chaotic, hurting people, whether it’s in education or healthcare or on the farm. And when we make that argument and when we govern well, we can continue to build out a broad coalition, because that’s what the Democratic Party is. It is a big tent party. It should be a big tent party. and across the country. I think there is a yearning for people to be seen and to be heard. And that is the role of every candidate, whether they’re an incumbent or a challenger, to take up that mantle and to work on delivering. And then, you know, in 2028, of course, it’s essential that that we win the presidency. And I think we’ll have an array of good candidates, but importantly, ones that are really kind of deeply connected to the challenges that that Americans are feeling.”
• Psaki: I’ve thought about you and wondered you know I still of course live in Washington and live right outside of Washington. You’re here in Richmond, but you spent so many years working as a public servant, working in the national security space. And if you walk by the White House now, you have this monstrosity that has been built to host a UFC fight on the South Lawn that is also being sponsored by a range of private sector companies. If it were written into a script about politics, nobody would believe it.  And I think about this because I every day I walked into the White House, I was still in awe of the building and the history. And I just wonder as you’re sitting here, you’re leading a state and you see what is happening in the institution that you worked for. What what goes through your head?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “You bring up the UFC fight. It it’s just disappointing. And probably many other words to describe it. You know, you worked in the national security and the diplomacy space at State Department. I was at CIA. And to be an American overseas, to be a representative of the US government, to be working to support our nation’s safety and security, I mean that people looked at the United States with reverence, with gratitude because of our history of of being a stable actor, a a loyal partner. And the place where like, and this is the 250th year, right, since our Declaration of Independence. an example for the rest of the world on what is possible when you build a nation based on ideas. And so the I the reality that there’s going to be a UFC fight at the you know at the White House to celebrate our 250th,  it’s a disconnect for me that I just think is a sad lesson for our kids. And you know certainly I invite anyone to turn their attention towards Virginia our not to offend others from other places but you know our slogan this year is America made in Virginia. And we’re going to be having events across Virginia that that make clear what is our our our history shared history built on ideas and you know the good and the bad and everything in between about the birth of our nation. But to have a sort of a a callous president who makes it all about himself and not about the history and the people who built up our nation, who believed in something so much bigger than themselves to create the United States of America and then to work to perfect it year after year, which is a constant iterative process, I think it’s a sad reality. But I think there are also other places to look, whether it’s in local celebrations or local communities or local leaderships across the the country of, you know, people who are actually doing that work of trying to, you know, ever perfect a unique nation.”
• Psaki: “I know you have a big day of events in Virginia today, but I was wondering about another piece that that’s national news, but has impacted people in Virginia, which is Elon Musk. I mean, Virginia has one of the largest populations of federal workers. As a resident of Arlington, it’s so many people who live in my community of any state in the country. And many people who are still reeling from the impact of the DOGE-led destruction that he led in the beginning of the administration. Today, he’s about to launch the largest IPO in history with his company SpaceX. And I just wonder how you reflect on those two facts being true at the same time.”
• Gov. Spanberger: “I think it’s it just speaks to the the corruption and the self-dealing of the Trump administration, right? In the earliest days when he brought in Elon Musk with no experience in in in government or in public service who thought it was, you know, funny or whatever to get up on stage with a chainsaw saying you’re cutting government, right? And what what is government, right? This is the federal agencies that go after bank robbers or transnational criminal organizations or sex traffickers. This is the the folks who ensure that your loved one gets their Social Security check. It’s the scientists who get ahead of the next pandemic. It’s the, you know, USDA folks who ensure and work to ensure the success of of agricultural advancements in our country. I mean, the list goes on and on. And the fact that you had a man like Elon Musk just come in and talk about public service in a way where he degraded it and then importantly cast aside, summarily firing and disrespecting federal employees, public servants, Virginia did bear an incredible brunt of that – many many Virginians lost their jobs, but also lost the mission that they believe in and the service that they’ve rendered. And so you know to continue to see someone like him who’s only ever self dealt and only ever kind of focused on you know his his next thing you know on the in the private sector, you know the success that he does or doesn’t create that’s his, but to think that this is the same person that the Trump administration sort of brought in I guess as some sort of reward award because you’ve been such a campaign sponsor just allowed him to wreak havoc, it speaks to the moment that we’re in. It speaks to the way this administration works. But, you know, it’s no different than the fact that you’ve got a president who sends his son-in-law and his kids out all over the world to make these billion-dollar deals and get rich while Americans are suffering, while gas prices are going up, while a war is not ending, and while the American people, you know, some of whom believed in him, many of whom did not, are still continuing to suffer and  bear the brunt of that.”
• Psaki: “We’re just months away from Democrats potentially taking back the House, maybe even the Senate, an institution you worked in for a while. How do you see the balance of accountability for what we’ve seen take place? Elon Musk could be a part of that. The wheeling and dealing, the money that’s been made, the corruption, so many things, and the work of governing and getting bills passed for the American people. What would you advise your old colleagues on that?”
• Gov. Spanberger: “I think that accountability is extraordinarily important because frankly what the Trump administration both this time and the first time really endeavored to do is deplete people’s faith in in government, in public service in in the people who work in government. The sort of notion where if they make it seem like everybody’s doing what they’re doing then people just turn away. And so it is incredibly important that every legislative effort they undertake be focused on addressing the needs of the people of our country. And in doing so they must continue to do the work of you know holding congressional hearings and accountability so that people understand clearly what has happened under this administration. The kind of overarching theme of my response to the State of the Union was like, is he working for you? And so, you do need the clarity of accountability through congressional hearings to make clear, you know, if he’s not working for you, who is he working for? What sort of corruption is permeating throughout his administration? And then you need to do the counterpoint of showing that you, if you’re elected to Congress or the Senate or if you’re a governor or state legislator, that you are working for people. And so those two , things have to go hand in hand. And so I would I would hope that people recognize that that balance it’s not in conflict, it actually goes hand in hand. You need the accountability, so that then the counterpoint when you are working for people and working to deliver for them and be responsive to their needs that they can see that.”