Very interesting interview, by Politico, of Gov. Abigail Spanberger, including her views on data centers, as well as “her affordability agenda and the Democratic party’s energy and climate messaging ahead of the midterm elections.” See below for video and highlights, as well as my reactions (in brackets/green/bold).
- “…once we started seeing some of the real chaos coming out of Washington with trade and tariff policies being disruptive, the, so-called ‘one big beautiful bill’, is certainly driving up energy costs. And of course, there’s the war in Iran…and since the beginning of that war, we’ve seen, you know, estimates are about the average family’s paid an additional thousand dollars in just expenses because things have gone up in cost. So, the energy landscape is one where when you get that monthly bill, you feel it in a different way and it impacts everything else. The cost of the grocery store, you view it through a different lens. The ability to go to the doctor, you view it through a different lens. Pick up your prescription, view it through a different lens.” [As always, I’d never use the phrase “chaos coming out of Washington,” because it’s 100% Trump’s and the Republicans’ fault, not “Washington” generically. And it’s not just “chaos,” either, it’s wildly wrong, harmful policy choices by Trump and Republicans. But other than that, yes, people are definitely feeling economically anxious right now…]
- And you know, historically, I think compared to some other states, Virginia has been a place where energy’s been a bit less expensive. And so seeing those rising energy bills has really been impactful. As governor, of course, the real challenge is there’s so many levers to pull on, but there’s not one single thing that you can do to say, ‘ok, we’re going to wave this magic wand and energy costs are going to go down.’ Because you’re dealing with, in our case, multiple utilities. Then you’re dealing with co-ops. you’re dealing with all of the input and challenges on the kind of global energy market scale. We’re a PJM state, so we’re contending with PJM auctions and and their policies. And so the way that I have endeavored to look at this is through the legislative process, there is a lot that we can do to incentivize investments in clean energy, in zero-carbon energy. there’s ways that we can incentivize additional use of battery storage and and even distributed solar at the hyper local level with a bill that we passed related to so-called balcony solar. And I also need to use the strength of my role to make sure that we have an extraordinarily loud voice on energy policy certainly on the East coast. And so this is why I appointed and created the role of chief energy officer and as a cabinet position within my administration that really works across our secretariat to find places where there are additional levers that we can pull on to lower costs for people. Our chief energy officer is doing a lot of our work direct with PJM. Really trying to push for some changes and modifications in PJM both to drive additional energy generation and inclusion of newer energy generation in the PJM marketplace but ultimately to the benefit of of rate payers across Virginia. So it’s hard is I think the short answer to your question.” [The bottom line is that inflation is not a state-level issue, it’s determined at the national and international levels. The question is, are there levers that governors and state legislators can pull that can, at least on the margins, make things a bit less expensive – or at least prevent prices from going up as rapidly as they otherwise would – in the individual states? Because other than that, no, the governor of one particular state can’t set the global price of oil, or the price of imported goods, or the value of the dollar or whatever. Which is why I’ve always worried a bit that the “affordability” messaging at the state level could result in a classic case of “overpromise, underdeliver.”]
- “…we came through a challenging few months where within the General Assembly, there were lots of debates on where to go with our budget. And so we have a part-time legislature in Virginia and they adjourned from from their session without a a full budget and then we spent the last couple months debating budget issues, and in fact one of the central discussion points was related to data centers and their energy utilization, which is why ultimately in the budget that we passed, we created the kind of first-of-its-kind consumption tax on data centers and their energy usage. But I think that in bringing this topic to the forefront, not just of discussion, but also debate and kind of the back-and-forth disagreements, debates and and determinations of how to move forward with policy, it’s even more front of mind, not just when you get your energy bill, but in fact, you know, anytime you turn on the local television.” [I definitely think the energy consumption tax for data centers was a significant step in the right direction. And no question, the “salience” of this issue has skyrocketed in recent months here in Virginia, in part because of Sen. Louise Lucas really working to make it a high-salience issue, as well as the fight between Gov. Spanberger/Speaker Don Scott and Sen. Lucas over this issue. Hopefully, now, there’s “peace in the valley” among Democrats in Richmond, but regardless, there’s still more work to do when it comes to data centers, certainly on setting stronger regulations regarding water usage, energy usage, noise, siting, etc., etc.]
- [Q: “Some Democrats we’re seeing have argued maybe there’s been too much leaning into the affordability side at the expense of talking about climate change. Do you think Democrats have overcorrected in that sense?”] “No, because it’s not a binary choice. You can have a conversation where you really drive on the fact that the more we innovate in our energy generation, zero-carbon emission generation or use of fuel cell technology instead of diesel backups. These are ways that we can move into a future where we are both creating greater stability in our consumer marketplace for energy. Ultimately that stability can be impactful on prices. And we can also put at the forefront of some of those discussions some of our environmental priorities. One of the issues that we’ve raised with PJM just in the last couple weeks is that within the PJM auction system, small-scale distributed solar is not kind of counted in the way that you know certainly large-scale projects would be, but also large-scale projects that often include natural gas projects and traditional energy generation. And so we’re really making a push saying there’s a real challenge here where we’re driving up costs for ratepayers in PJM states and we’re also making it harder for some of these smaller scale distributed solar projects or distributed renewable energy projects to be part of the solution in bringing down costs. And so pushing for policy changes, whether it’s within the Commonwealth of Virginia or in a more sort of macro policy of an entity in our case like PJM, we can drive on both those topics, because so frequently zero-carbon emission or renewable energy is part of the answer of how it is that we increase our generation or create greater stability in the larger marketplace to the benefit of ratepayers. And isn’t an immediate thing, but it’s having that sort of comprehensive view and understanding that’s I think essential to being able to do both.” [I definitely disagree with Democrats downplaying the climate crisis, as that’s arguably the #1 issue facing the planet, existential in many ways, and also intertwined with so many other issues, from national security to economics to transitioning to clean energy to environmental sustainability to…you name it, really. But sure, it’s “not a binary choice” in some ways to talk about affordability OR climate action – in fact, the cheapest forms of energy at this point ARE clean energy – efficiency, solar, wind, storage, etc. – so really, this is a case where we can to the right thing from a policy perspective AND have it be politically popular to do so.]
- “Virginia utilizes like many other states a sales-and-use tax exemption at the state level, where the state foregoes collecting those…state sales-and-use taxes to the benefit of localities. So, while the state foregoes that tax, not dollars out of our pocket, but dollars we’re not collecting, localities then receive that sales-and-use tax money incoming. And they also benefit from property tax. Now, this is a a type of tax incentive that we use to entice businesses to come to Virginia. We use it across different types of industries from aquaculture to agriculture to I mean ship building to data centers. And so, in that context, then it becomes the conversation of late, right? We see energy prices going up. We know that there’s large-scale energy users to, you know, in this case data centers – and Virginia has an extraordinary number of data centers already here and wanting to come here. And so there were two kind of thoughts and approaches. The House of Delegates took the approach of wanting to do a a longer-term process…They actually put forth some legislation incentivizing through technology and environmental impacts and creating different incentives into the future. Ultimately, there was an agreement between the House and the Senate on that. The Senate took a more of a sort of an immediate step of okay, there’s challenges as it relates to data centers with water usage and energy consumption, so, we’re going to eliminate the sales and use tax [exemption].” [I have no disagreements with this explanation by Gov. Spanberger. I’d also point out that she’s a first-year governor who never had experience working in state government, but is really learning fast on this stuff…impressive.]
- “Now, my approach to this was you have to always look at what are we trying to achieve. Are we trying to say we don’t want data centers in Virginia anymore?” [Q: “Are you saying that? No. Because there’s some Democrats who who think that should be the case right now. There’s Democrats calling for moratoriums.”] “And so, the challenge in Virginia is what do we tell the localities that get 50% of their local revenue from data centers, sales and use tax, and property tax, right? We have entire communities where the school, the libraries, the fire station, I mean, is principally being funded because of the types of investments that are coming to that community. And on the affordability side, that means that local property tax is not going up. That means that local community members are not bearing that direct brunt. And so where we landed with the budget is creating this first-of-its-kind consumption tax, where the challenge that we’re trying to address at this moment with the budget is the fact that we want data centers to pay their fair share. The way to get at that is by ensuring that they are paying this consumption tax based on their energy consumption. And then we can couple that into the future with longer term views of what are the standards that we want to set in Virginia for water usage, for backup energy generation. How can we continue to be a place where we are innovating and you know frankly we have some of that innovation on the horizon. We have large-scale data centers that have already partnered with our utility to create you know on-site SMR technology. Now, that’s still a couple years off. We’ve got another data center company partnering on fusion technology also a couple years off. But there are interim things, fuel cell backups and other types of innovation that we want to drive here in Virginia.” [I pretty much agree with all this. In looking at the data centers question, I’d argue that it’s CRUCIAL to look at all sides of it, including the problems around data centers but also the revenues, jobs, etc, and to balance all of those things in formulating policy, hopefully smart policy for Virginia as a whole, as well as for individual communities impacted both positively and negatively by data centers. Because this is a very complex issue, definitely not something that should be oversimplified when talking about it or making policy pertaining to it. As for small modular nuclear reactors and nuclear fusion in particular, I remain VERY skeptical about both the technology and particularly the cost of these things, as well as of the timeline, particularly on nuclear fusion – I’m guessing another decade or two on that one…and even then, it won’t be competitive with solar, wind, energy efficiency, geothermal, storage, etc, etc.]
- [Q: “Just to bring it back real quick. I mean, some of your former colleagues, including Frank Pallone, top Democrat on energy and commerce, want to see, they basically say, ‘let’s do a moratorium now and then figure out sort of the long-term strategy later.’ Do you disagree with that approach?”] “I mean, I disagree with that approach from a couple perspectives. One, the perspective of a Virginia where data centers have been part of our economy for quite some time. And so if we were to end that kind of in one fell swoop, that has a major impact on jobs in Virginia, union jobs, electrical jobs, certainly the building trades, it has a major impact on many of our communities, also many of our rural communities that see great benefit when they choose to because we we’ve got local control on this. When they choose to in invite or welcome or approve data centers, they see that benefit. What I’m hearing from local community members and leaders and mayors and board of supervisor members across Virginia is they want to do the right thing and the best thing by their communities. And this is where Virginia through the General Assembly and through work in in my administration. can set the highest standard and frankly lead the nation and and arguably the world in the type of innovation. Now that’s my position as the governor of Virginia.” [I agree on all of this, for the reasons noted in the previous bullet point. I’d add that a black-and-white approach on this complicated issue – whether 100% for data centers or 100% against them – is not helpful; need to look at the entire picture and make policy decisions accordingly.]
- “Additionally, from a national security perspective – and that’s my background, former intelligence officer with CIA and certainly that was a large focus of mine at the federal level – data centers, the need for data centers, processing of information, there’s a national security implication here in Virginia. Actually, we just welcomed a major investment in in Jefferson Labs, which is an incredible research entity focused on quantum computing into the future. And we don’t as a nation want to cede that ground. As a nation, we should show leadership in what it is that we require and how it is that we utilize, whether it’s advanced manufacturing or data center technologies and investments to meet the goals that we have on the environmental side on the affordability side of our priorities. But kind of walking away from a technology that is going to continue to proliferate is walking away from the table.” [Again, I agree with Gov. Spanberger on this; there are major national security implications to artificial intelligence, quantum computing, etc, etc., and we definitely shouldn’t “cede that ground” to China or anyone else. And no, these technologies are NOT going away, quite the contrary, so we have to decide – whether as a nation or an individual state – whether we want to be part of that, and how.]
- “It is much easier to just say, you know, we’re upset about something, so let’s just turn away from it. But that’s not how you make good policy. And in fact, the way that you make good policy or the way that you make good choices is by recognizing that there’s no simple answer. By doing the hard work of explaining to voters in Virginia everything from, you know, this new school was built by data center money, right? The locality will forego that and what’s the implication for the state. Explaining that in fact tax incentives are something that we use across the board to bring more jobs and more investment to Virginia. It’s not just a special giveaway to data centers. And so that’s why I think it’s so important that Virginia really continue to lead on this conversation and say we are going to set the highest standards not just for us in Virginia but for the rest of the country. Because if they’re not coming to Virginia and they go somewhere else in PJM that’s an impact on our energy prices. If they’re not coming to Virginia and they’re going to some other state that isn’t going to have the same environmental priorities. Now from a national perspective, we’re seeing the proliferation of an industry at a kind of lower level of environmental protections or technological investment. And where we can leverage kind of the ability to be detail oriented as policy makers and as executives of a state to be able to drive that innovation to the benefit of future technology and energy generation and stability within our energy grid in the larger market, we should do it. And I think as it relates to some of the the sort of pushback, you know, notably, we just had an announcement from a a large company coming to Virginia saying that they are actually going to expand upon. They had a multi-level investment in data centers and they have now publicly announced that in fact they are going to pursue their full, you know, enormous huge investment. And they’ve spoken somewhat favorably of the consumption tax in terms of its level of fairness and it’s not precluding them or stopping them from making an incredible investment in Virginia jobs in our communities.” [I agree strongly with this – just saying you’re upset, angry, whatever about data centers or anything else is NOT “how you make good policy”; instead, you do that “by recognizing that there’s no simple answer.” Also, yes, data centers are going to go somewhere, which means that Virginia has the opportunity to be a leader on regulating them, having them pay their fair share, etc. – and also on whether they locate in Virginia or somewhere else.]
- [Q: “And just pivoting to our last topic, can’t let you go without asking about this proposed utility mega merger, NextEra Energy, trying to merge with Dominion Energy to create the biggest utility company ever? You know, if approved, this really could reshape Virginia’s electricity system for decades. The companies say this will ultimately benefit customers. Skeptics say, well, maybe it’ll just increase utility profits. So, I’m wondering, are you supportive of this deal? Where have you landed on it?”] “So, I haven’t taken a position on this yet. Let me tell you the things that I’m considering. One, I know that there’s been different types of mergers with NextEra that have been turned down by regulatory boards. In our case, it’s the the SEC. They have not filed the full paperwork before the SEC. And once they do the things that I will be considering and before I take a real public stance on this is what is going to be the impact on ratepayers. Certainly in some of the announcements they’ve spoken of positive intentions on lowering costs but how does that actually happen in the details and what does this potential merger mean for Virginians and ratepayers. Second thing I’ll be paying close attention to is certainly Dominion Energy is a strong employer in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Whether it’s linemen all across the state, whether it’s the folks who work at our nuclear power plants and our other energy infrastructure or folks who are at the headquarters right here in the city of Richmond. The implications of this potential merger on jobs in Virginia is something that I will be considering and you know digging into the details once they have their full filing. And then the third thing is what does this mean for the trajectory of energy generation in the Commonwealth of Virginia and specifically zero-carbon energy generation. And so we’ll be we’ll be digging into the full details once the the it is filed with the SEC and once I have a a much broader understanding of the potential implications then I’ll be weighing in. But I think, you know, certainly my approach at this moment is to be very cautious and, you know, recognize the devil’s in the details and that’s what I’ll be looking for.” [I’m very skeptical of this merger, but yes, let’s look into all the details, have a serious review process in an adequate timeframe, don’t rush approval, consider all the advantages and disadvantages for Virginia, and then decide what position to take…]
- [Q: “If those standards aren’t met, is there a scenario where your administration could block the deal?”] “So, certainly under any circumstance, there’s options for us to weigh in, certainly for our counterparts in the General Assembly to weigh in. And I frankly know that the standards that I just laid out as governor are just as important to the leadership in the House of Delegates and the State Senate. And so my expectation is that as we are diving into the full details and certainly leveraging the resources of a fuller administration and the Department of Energy and our chief energy officer and his entire team will be coordinating and making sure that any questions that might exist within our General Assembly that those questions are getting answered as well. I think that very broadly speaking, every tool is available uh for us to make sure that we are doing right by the people that we serve, whether in my case it’s the entirety of the Commonwealth of Virginia, for General Assembly members, their districts, and their communities. There are a lot more questions to be answered and and certainly it is our duty and our responsibility to continue to advocate for the people of Virginia and that’s certainly what what I will be doing and and you know working with the others to do as well…So individually, we can we can certainly make clear, we can be a party to the case. There’s all sorts of mechanisms that we can ask questions, raise concerns or or ultimately provide what could be very vital impact. But it but again, you know, I’m I’m going to be cautiously curious at this point in time and reserve my judgment till I have further details. Because there’s, you know, many scenarios, many passes could take and and once I have those details, then I’ll be digging into it.” [Agreed.]
- [Q: “Just quick bonus question if you have the time. You know, I’m a Congress reporter. I’m just wondering, you know, given your time in the House, you have this bipartisan record. some of the party’s biggest primary victories recently, New York, now Colorado, have gone to candidates running more progressive agenda. I mean, are you concerned that the left is is gaining power in your party?”] “I’m of the opinion that we are a big-tent party. We’ve always been a big-tent party. And certainly, I think that if you look to 2025 when Mikie Sherrill and I both won, she her primary, me, I ultimately didn’t have a primary on the ballot. I think that various candidates resonate in various parts of the country. And I think that what will be the challenge when this new Congress comes in is that all those voices matter and in different ways. All of the conversations that are being had in various parts of the country, whether it’s on a political spectrum or a regional spectrum, you know, or a constituency need spectrum have to be taken into account. And I think that importantly the goal of anyone who is running for Congress right now should be on the Democratic side of the aisle should be to win the majority. And that means defeating a quite a few Republicans and then when they usher in the majority endeavor to methodically, purposefully, and with great intentionality and urgency do right by our country. That means certainly oversight of the Trump administration. That means policy priorities that may not get signed into law, but certainly can speak to the urgency of the moments that we’re facing. And endeavor to ensure that people recognize what good governance is and can be. And frankly, some of the priorities that I know exist for Virginians who are going to the polls this November are issues of accountability, good governance, rooting out corruption, lowering costs, supporting our health care system, investing in education, certainly public safety, and all these things are linked and intertwined. And I think that it’s going to be a great challenge and a worthy challenge when the new Congress comes in to get it right.” [Agreed that we are a big-tent party, and pretty much HAVE to be a big-tent party. And yes, the #1 priority right now is for Democrats to win back majorities – ergo, power – in the House of Delegates and State Senate. My attitude is that if a candidate makes that MORE likely, then great, I’ll support them even if they’re not my cup of tea. But if a candidate makes it LESS likely, then…nope, I’m not going to support them, because we absolutely need those levers of power in Congress to hold the lawless, out-of-control Trump regime to account, and we won’t be able to do that if we don’t have majorities, preferably in both the Senate and House of Representatives, starting in January 2027.]
- [Q: “Do you think putting in all these progressive, you know, nominees potentially in the general election though could jeopardize regaining the majority? Do you have any worries?”] “I would say just even on the issue of terminology, labels can be applied different ways in different places. And so I think what matters is does that person, an individual nominated in any particular district, are they focused on winning and then delivering results? Or are they focused on an idea and not necessarily being effective? Or are they focused on talking about an issue and not writing policy to boot? I think that ultimately the question is the bills that move forward need a majority of support whether it’s within the Democratic caucus or in a bipartisan manner. And I think that frankly approach so frequently matters ultimately more than where someone might fall on an on an ideological spectrum, because on any given issue where people might classify me, you know I’ll defer to others, where I want to be classified is somebody who’s pragmatic and is getting things done. And so effectiveness matters so much more in how we get things done. And that’s my expectation is that we you know these nominees uh nominated across the country, their focus is on winning and then delivering.” [Again, I agree with Gov. Spanberger – I’m a pragmatic progressive myself, in the sense that I want to get stuff done, make progress, etc., and am much more concerned about that than about specific ideological labels or whatever. I also strongly believe that we need a broad, pro-democracy, anti-authoritarian, anti-corruption coalition, kinda like what we saw in Hungary, to beat back the dire threats to our democracy coming from the Trump regime, MAGA extremism, etc.]
